Jacob Appelbaum ([info]ioerror) wrote,
@ 2006-11-25 07:19:00
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Attempting domestic flight without id
I'm quite tired, still up after a really nice party. Grey and Alex dropped me at the curb side bag checker at the SFO.

The checker was nice. He asked my name, found my ticket, he took my bags and asked for ID. I gave the delta checker my ID because it is their company policy. They have it written on their website. Admittedly, I didn't buy a delta ticket, I bought an alaska air ticket. That somehow became a delta ticket. Anyway, I was given a boarding pass.

I approached the first checkpoint with my boarding pass and my laptop bag. At the checkpoint, I handed my boarding pass over to be inspected. The security screener demanded my ID. I stated that I wished the fly without ID. After some squabbaling, he brought me to the delta counter. Delta sent an agent to talk to the two of us.

The delta agent seemed confused. I had my boarding pass. Why did delta need to be involved? The security screener explained that I had no ID. The delta agent understood this to be a pure TSA issue.

So back we went to the security line. This time I was told to wait while the agent (still the first screening agent) went to find a TSA agent. The TSA agent asked what the issue was and I explained that I wished to fly without ID, I showed my boarding pass and explained that unless someone could show me a law that requries ID, I'd like to board without ID.

The TSA agent asked the first screener what his policy was for allowing people through checkpoints. He attempted to lead the agent by making statements like "you normally have to have something printed on the boarding pass, something that says they have no ID. Right?"

The agent didn't entirely follow and said that one could not board without ID. The TSA agent said that I could not break this screeners policy, thus I must produce ID. I asked if it was his policy and he stated that until I got through the first screener, I would not be able to even have the TSA conversation.

At this point, a delta employee approached me. He seemed generally concerned but seemed to think that attempts to fly without ID were pointless. Why I was even talking to him, I don't know. He informed me that if I attempted to board the plane or if I attempted to go through security, I would be arrested. I asked what the charge would be and he declined to state it. He had a very interesting perspective, show your documents and all is OK. I simply wanted proof of a rule backed by a law that explained the federal government regulation supposdly requiring me to produce ID for domestic american travel.

I was then redirected to Anna at the delta desk, she eventually described "Delta law." The concept itself is interesting. Essentially, they have a policy that says I must show ID to fly with their airline. Without that, I would be denied a biarding pass. So at this point, I showed her my boarding pass and she seemed confused.

I stated that I wished to fly without ID. She stated that it was not possible and I responded with a request in writing. She returned with a printed copy of something from the delta website stating that they (delta) require ID. When I stated that a company rule did not apply to the TSA, she agreed. She then explained that delta had essentially created a law by requiring ID for boarding and the TSA enforced the airlines rules. She called this "delta law" and said that there was no way to board the plane without ID.

Naturally, I wondered what would happen if someone had lost their wallet - she stated that one would need a police report and even then, it would be tricky. I thanked her and went to the security checkpoint. I used my ID and I didn't even get to experience a secondary screening.

Through all of this experience, I had people look at me as if I was a criminal, as if I was breaking the law, as if I was somehow fighting a system I should just accept. That last one came from a guy who produced a DOD ID.

Delta, the primary ID checker, and TSA at SFO all insist that it is not possible to fly without ID. Secret rules that cannot be produced are unamerican in the most obviouis way, this is a basic right that is being restricted in a blatant manner.

It was a waste of time to attempt this but it proves a point. It is functionally not possible to even get through a security screening area of an airport without my ID. It isn't possible to even try without being singled out in a rude manner.



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[info]wasteddream
2006-11-25 03:30 pm UTC (link)
I'm probably with you on this more than you think, but i do want to point out that in your penultimate paragraph you address this as a basic right. It is not. Airlines are private companies, and you in no way have a right to fly unrestricted on their privately owned airplanes. They can set whatever policy they like, because you don't *have* to fly with them. You could take a bus, or drive, or walk. Flying is a convenience, and that's why you pay a lot of money for a ticket and voluntarily subject yourself to their policies and regulations, and employees who never finished high-school.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]encapsulate
2006-11-25 07:43 pm UTC (link)
Airlines are NOT private companies. The entire system goes bankrupt every few years, and is bailed out by the government.

I don't know where you are in the world, but if you're here in the US, that means, you and me.

They're treated privately when it suits them.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nibot, 2006-11-25 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mattholland, 2006-11-26 11:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wasteddream, 2006-11-25 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]encapsulate, 2006-11-25 11:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]moof, 2006-11-25 10:55 pm UTC
common carriers - [info]nibot, 2006-11-29 03:59 pm UTC

[info]vechan
2006-11-25 03:32 pm UTC (link)
the only real point of screening at u.s. airports is to create the illusion of safety. i don't feel any safer because some person kind of, sort of looked at my carry-on as it went through the x-ray machine. it has nothing to do about keeping planes safe. if it had anything to do with that, those screeners would make more money and be really well trained, not either small people on power trips or bored off of their asses.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]warewolf
2006-11-25 04:13 pm UTC (link)
More people need to do this. My next flight, business or not, I will fly without ID. This "papers please" stuff to travel within your own country is absolutely absurd.

Did you explicitly say that you wished to be a screened selectee? Either produce, or ask them to retrieve a copy of Security Directive 96-05 (story here):

1. IDENTIFY THE PASSENGER -

A. ALL PASSENGERS WHO APPEAR TO BE 18 YEARS OF AGE WILL PRESENT A GOVERNMENT ISSUED PICTURE ID, OR TWO OTHER FORMS OF ID, AT LEAST ONE OF WHICH MUST BE ISSUED BY A GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY.

B. THE AGENT MUST RECONCILE THE NAME ON THE ID AND THE NAME ON THE TICKET -- EXCEPT AS NOTED BELOW.

C. IF THE PASSENGER CANNOT PRODUCE IDENTIFICATION, OR IT CANNOT BE RECONCILED TO MATCH THE TICKET, THE PASSENGER BECOMES A "SELECTEE." CLEAR ALL OF THEIR LUGGAGE AS NOTED IN SECTION 6, BELOW.

6. CLEAR SELECTEE'S CHECKED AND CARRY-ON LUGGAGE, AND SUSPICIOUS ARTICLES DISCOVERED BY THE QUESTIONS ASKED;

A. IF THE SELECTEE IS ON A FLIGHT WITHIN THE 48 CONTINENTAL US STATES, OR TO MEXICO, OR TO CANADA, ITEMS CAN BE CLEARED BY EITHER OF THE FOLLOWING METHODS:

1. EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY A QUALIFIED SCREENER, OR;

2. BAG-MATCH -- ENSURE THE BAG IS NOT TRANSPORTED ON THE AIRCRAFT IF THE PASSENGER DOES NOT BOARD.

B. IF THE SELECTEE IS ON AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT -- CHECKED LUGGAGE, CARRY-ON LUGGAGE, AND SUSPECT ITEMS CAN BE CLEARED ONLY BY THE FOLLOWING METHOD; EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY QUALIFIED SCREENERS.
Last I checked, it was legal to fly without ID in the US. I hope that hasn't changed, and I hope you were able to board your flight.

While the above is a painful process, it's what they require. :(

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]warewolf
2006-11-25 04:21 pm UTC (link)
Having a copy of this court decision may prove helpful the next time, should you decide to go through the screening process.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]hub_, 2006-11-25 04:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]warewolf, 2006-11-26 01:07 am UTC
yes it only applies to US citizens - [info]letoams, 2006-11-26 03:26 am UTC
Re: yes it only applies to US citizens - [info]hub_, 2006-11-26 09:40 pm UTC

[info]brad
2006-11-25 04:55 pm UTC (link)
I did it a couple months ago, but not on Delta.

(Reply to this)

damn
[info]hukuma
2006-11-25 05:41 pm UTC (link)
I think the phrasing "delta law" is cute, but it's more interesting that the ID check is, according to them, company policy and not government regulation. I guess the next step is to either find an airline that doesn't have this policy, or to press Delta about why it requires more identification than the TSA.

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Re: damn
[info]letoams
2006-11-26 03:31 am UTC (link)
The only way out of this is move to France. They are the only legal system that I know of where companies can exist only to serve citizens. It is a priviledge, and those companies may not choose who and who not to do business with. You either serve all or serve none.

That said, most other countries allow companies to set wahtever clauses they like, and claim the "free market" gives you a choice. Well, show me the free market choice of "flying without ID" or signing a phone/internet/hosting contract without the clause "we can disconnect you at any time for no reason".

Worst case I know of is Flashback magazine in Sweden. They were a free hosting service , and some right wing lunatics posted stupid stuff. Someone sued and the Swedish court ruled it "very inappropriate and in abd taste, but not illegal". UUnet then disconnected the site, and informed flashback they would disconnect any other customer they would show up at. At the time UUnet was the one major international ISP in Sweden....

Company contract overrides law, amd there is nothing you can do. Even voting won't help you here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]shephi
2006-11-25 05:44 pm UTC (link)
Last Christmas, I flew with only an expired passport. I didn't realize it was expired until I got to the airport and security pointed it out. I had access to no other form of ID: my Social Security card and license had been recently stolen, and neither me nor my family had a copy of birth certificate. They ended up letting me fly, and did so in a fairly friendly manner.

Incidentally, the right order to reconstruct an ID: social security number->temporary birth certificate m->license->passport. Weeks later the real birth certificate comes in the mail and you are good to go.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]girlvinyl
2006-11-25 05:52 pm UTC (link)
If your US passport is not expired by more than 10 years you can use it to get a liscense in most states.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

the right order - (Anonymous), 2007-10-18 11:14 pm UTC
Possible to fly without ID
(Anonymous)
2006-11-25 05:45 pm UTC (link)
SOP for flying without ID is simple:

Apply SSSS (secondary screening) on boarding pass if you don't have an ID.

In your case you already had a boarding pass having shown the ID to curbside checker. So Delta should have issued you a new boarding pass at the counter with SSSS when you said you don't have an ID.

Happens all the time everyday all over America.

Note that origin of ID requirement came not from security folks but from Airliners themselves who wanted to curb misuse of Frequent flier privileges. And it has become such a joke now.

Check flyertalk.com - tons of people there have flown without ID.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Possible to fly without ID
[info]lost_almost
2006-11-27 02:37 am UTC (link)
Yep. I am not a US citizen but I had to do this once when I lost my wallet. I packed extra light and had practically nothing in my carry-on back pack. It was a no-hassle process. The person at the airline desk gave me a boarding pass with SSSS. I went into another queue where the other person was somebody with a pacemaker. Quick search through my bag, a customary 'pat-down' with the wand and I was good to go.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]girlvinyl
2006-11-25 05:49 pm UTC (link)
Hrm
Honestly. I think it may have been the fumes of "NON CONFORMIST!!!" radiating off of you. I have flown on Delta without ID twice and United three times. I am dressed in business attire and apologetic. I didn't even need ID to get my boarding pass. I just showed the company-owned gold amex that the ticket was purchased on and another credit card with the same name. The counter agent walked me over to TSA and said "this person needs to board without ID" and the TSA person said "ok."

This happened with delta at ORD and ATL and united at ORD and STL. However, I have flown out of SFO and seen the checkpoint people literally scream "BREACH!!!" and tackle someone so maybe they're different.

Hell, I am flying united tomorrow. I will do it again and recount the experience. May be I will even take pictures or video or somehting.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]encapsulate
2006-11-25 07:51 pm UTC (link)
One time, I bought a mere roll of stamps at Costco.

Upon exiting, the stop loss lady was busy gabbing with some dude and his cart full of catfood and 40lbs of Lasagna. So I walked by, while stuffing my receipt in my pocket.

My criminal master plan was to be foiled. I was flanked by two ladies yelling "SIR, SIR, SIIIIIIIIR!" They had their Sir-Marks-A-Lot's drawn, locked, and loaded.

You'd have thought I ran the border.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]girlvinyl, 2006-11-25 08:04 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]nibot
2006-11-25 07:51 pm UTC (link)
I saw someone fly without ID in Sweden last I was there.

passenger: "I'm sorry, I forgot my ID."

SAS person: "Try to remember it next time."

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]janviere
2006-11-25 09:52 pm UTC (link)
Going through passport control in Denmark, all the Danish citizens were just holding up their closed passports to the agent as they walked by.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nibot, 2006-11-25 10:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hub_, 2006-11-26 09:42 pm UTC

[info]ravennoir
2006-11-25 09:00 pm UTC (link)
Interesting,J.As much as I fly,I vaguely recall a time or 2 when for whatever reason,I did not have a photo id(my purse containing all id was stolen shortly upon arrival in the US after my 1st European trip).They did not want to let me back into my own country! It's bad enough doing photography,producing multiple rolls of high-speed film to be hand inspected (TSA look at me like I shot their dog)and getting the 'selective screening' each & every time because they think I look ...(which is getting pretty old,by the way) but I've had more problems getting back INTO our own country than I do leaving.It's bothersome that the airlines have so much control over our rights and there are so many hidden by-laws that people are unaware of.

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(Reply from suspended user)

[info]janviere
2006-11-25 10:02 pm UTC (link)
I've flown on an expired ID for the last two years. Only two TSA screeners have ever bothered me about it. Bars have better security.

I've also flown with no photo ID. I showed them my ATM card and a printed out scan of my passport. They were perfectly polite, searched my carry-on and luggage as in 6A1 above, and let me on the plane just fine. (And this was at a tiny regional airport where they didn't have anything better to do.)

(Reply to this)


[info]battledgrave
2006-11-25 10:10 pm UTC (link)
A girl that was being flown in for a shoot got on a flight with just her social security card.

Still ID but its easy enough to obtain. Just need your birth record, they dont ask for ID to get those.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]nibot
2006-11-25 10:33 pm UTC (link)
How is a social security card an ID?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]adapt
2006-11-25 10:20 pm UTC (link)
You seem to have become a unique case by your approach. I've flown without ID twice, and while it was a hassle, it wasn't a major one.

I'm apparently on the permanent selectee/SSSS list (I haven't flown without being selected for secondary screening in the past three years, under any circumstances), but I've always been able to get through simply by explaining that I have no ID, and need to get on the plane anyway.

I think, by making a political point of it, you reduced your chances. This shouldn't be the case, but it generally is.

I've also flown using my arrest warrant as ID :>

*the more you know*

(Reply to this) (Thread)

hah
[info]letoams
2006-11-26 03:36 am UTC (link)
Excellent!

Were you flying towards the state that issued the warrent, or away from it? :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: hah - [info]adapt, 2006-11-26 07:32 am UTC

[info]scosol
2006-11-26 02:53 am UTC (link)
Once you get in to "Show me the federal law that requires..." it's already over with.

You're lucky you didn't get tasered!

(Reply to this)


[info]srattus
2006-11-26 02:53 am UTC (link)
I've flown in and out of SF without ID a couple of years ago.

I forgot to bring ID to the airport. I breezed through secondary screening and that was it.

perhaps I should have issued a press release.

(Reply to this)


[info]josienutter
2006-11-26 09:43 am UTC (link)
That is fucked up.

I have flown before without ID. Can't remember if it was pre- or post-911 though. :/ But they made me jump through a kajillion security hoops, and my entire person and bags were checked with a fine tooth comb before they let me on.

(Reply to this)


[info]bifrosty2k
2006-11-26 10:30 am UTC (link)
Y'know, I'm just too lazy at this point.
Flying is not an adventure for me anymore, I just want to get to where I'm going. I am not interested in having to sue some massive organization to get fair treatment.

(Reply to this)


[info]battledgrave
2006-11-26 06:49 pm UTC (link)
Some people consider it as such. I dont really know to be quite honest.

(Reply to this)


[info]danijuneau
2006-11-26 08:29 pm UTC (link)
I would have been more concerned with your laptop than trying to get by without ID. Next time you fly, try to not allow them to search your laptop. My dad has this pretty well mastered as he has to, he carries around a shitload of classified information on it. When he can't override the laptop search, he pesters them into letting them keep it on him until the point where they search it and then when they do, he demands to be present and in control of the laptop the entire search.

I don't know if that was a problem for you or not at the time. I'm sure you were too busy with the task at hand.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Classified material on laptop
(Anonymous)
2008-05-03 08:00 pm UTC (link)
If your dad is carrying around a laptop with classified material, the laptop should be double password protected, inside a locked case, and clearly marked on the laptop itself as having classified data. And if he is carrying it outside of a secure facility without clearance, ID and autorization, he is in violation of 5USC522 sections a, c, d & e.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]epistolarysmack
2006-11-27 12:16 am UTC (link)
1. Good for you.
2. It's very alarming that they're relying on private property rights to enforce the nonexistent and/or secret ID "law." Not surprising, but alarming. I think this is a legal dodge -- if the TSA cuts a sufficiently secret deal with the airlines to have the airlines do it, then lawsuits against the TSA over it fizzle at square one. Although:
3. There's also some airline motive for this separate from the government: ticket-selling. I've long thought that the original "security" story for the ID cards was a crock (lets face it, what terrorist can't get a fake ID?) and that the real reason is to squish the secondary market for airline tickets and thus allow airlines to extract more profit. So the airlines would probably still demand IDs even without the government bullshit, they'd just have less cover for it.
4. Bummer I missed the party.

(Reply to this)


[info]artkiver
2006-11-27 02:31 am UTC (link)
mmmm "delta law" how big of a delta?

What do I have to do to get my company policies enforced by federal goons?

I want to see this work for small business owners too!

(Reply to this)


[info]edge_of_within
2006-11-27 10:24 pm UTC (link)
I lost my ID before a flight (no, really) 6 months ago and flew without ID domestic on Southwest/Delta via SFO.
I had to jump through A LOT of hoops at the airport, though I did board my plane. I had a CC in my name, and wasn't checking any bags. I was forced through the intricate screening process (which one would expect for not having ID) but generally it wasn't so bad - I only arrived at the airport 45 min before my flight.

(Reply to this)


[info]ravyn440
2006-11-29 07:52 am UTC (link)
Interesting. Even the TSA website suggests that you can fly without ID:

"We encourage each adult traveler to keep his/her airline boarding pass and government-issued photo ID available until exiting the security checkpoint. The absence of proper identification will result in additional screening."

(Reply to this)


[info]uke
2006-12-03 01:29 am UTC (link)
I flew without showing ID SFO->NYC->SFO a month or so ago. I said "I don't have any ID to show you" which doesn't highlight that I was refusing to comply with the request out of my own perversity. Both times I had "additional screening" but it wasn't signigicantly more or less painful than the regular screening.

(Reply to this)

testing this one...
(Anonymous)
2007-11-23 12:14 pm UTC (link)
Very interesting... as always! Cheers from -Switzerland-.

(Reply to this)


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